absolutelyBangkok archive · Being farang
Originally published Jan. 10, 2010
He’s the “most Thai foreigner” I know. After years of work in the twilight of Bangkokian nights and his recent front line coverage of Thailand’s political conflict he has become something of a celebrity around here. Thai Politicians of all sides and the top brass know him. He recently published Red vs. Yellow: Thailand’s Crisis of Identity, has been interviewed twice by Stickman, the rather pro-old The Nation just spoke to him, and now this site: pleased to meet German photographer Nick Nostitz.
Nick came over for a coffee and half a pack of cigarettes — and we talked. I actually wanted to avoid politics as much as possible. Hasn’t everything been said already? Obviously not. There is no way talking to Nick without talking about Thai politics and society. „It’s very difficult to be a Thai in Thailand,“ says Nick who has a grasp of the inner workings of Thailand that makes many seasoned observers look like dilettante newbies. So what lies ahead?
Nick’s not an observer. He’s a man at the front lines. Wrote Stickman: The man once known as “Mr. Nightlife (…) has become the Westerner whose opinions I respect more than any other on many matters Thai as he digs into the deepest, darkest depths of Thai society. When Nick covers an issue, you can be sure that what you are about to read will be a thoroughly researched, unbiased report that doesn’t seek to charm.” Here we go:
Who are you Nick.
Can’t say that really, I am just a normal guy trying to do a job. I’m a photographer who loves working on longterm projects. I have photographed the Bangkok nightlife for many years, first from the foreigner’s perspective, I published the book Patpong: Bangkok’s Twilight Zone about the addiction to a hedonistic lifestyle. I continued taking nightlife pictures, spent then years with the Por Tek Tung. That was an incredible window into the Thai life we Westerners do not see gangs, murders, all functioning with patronage networks. It was a fascinating time.
An easy way to polish your already decent Thai!
Not only the spoken Thai, but I also learned how Thai society actually functions.
Were you surprised?
The whole system, all the aspects, everything here deals with the patronage system. At the same time my wife and me bought some land upcountry, so her family can make a living. I learned about much of the social problems and corruption up there. In those early days I obviously had my political opinions, without much in-depth knowledge about politics. But after 2005, when politics became visible on the street, I shifted my focus.
We all kind of sympathized with the yellows back then, didn’t we?
Not me, really. Obviously I had a strong antipathy toward Thaksin, I was always hoping for a more democratic opposition to Thaksin, then there was the TV show of Sondhi in Lumphini Park, the first event I have visited, that was before all the protests started. A lot of criticizm of the then present system and government shared with him, but his solutions were a lot more dangerous than Thaksin I thought. At the time the PAD became the darling of the Western media. I had quite a few arguments and debates with my colleagues about that. They got perfect quotes and soundbites from the PAD, but I listened to the speeches on the stage, and they were quite the opposite of what they were saying to us Western journalists. Towards foreign journalists they spoke about democracy, but on the stage you heard extreme forms of nationalism. From what I understood from the speeches I asked the leaders and advisers critical questions. The reactions I got already back then were quite negative.
Negative?
These academics and PAD people just walked away. They did not want to answer my questions about the dangers of nationalism. I asked them in Thai, not in English. Anyway, so obviously during that time the pro-Thaksin groups were largely ignored, such as the caravan of the poor, they were quite an eye opener for me. So I went to these simple farmers and I usually always like to confront and challenge people. So I asked about corruption and all those allegations against Thaksin. I didn’t know much back then and was quite surprised by the reasonable answers I got. What choice do we have, they said. Before we had nothing, no hope. With Thaksin we got health service, local corruption actually decreased and we started to have some hopes that things get better for us.
Today’s arguments are still the same.
Of course, to a large part. But there’s more to it. In these last three years since the coup the political consciousness has been developed quite tremendously within the Thai political context. It has become a strong social movement. A lot of the points the PAD is raising have to be addressed, such as corruption, but I don’t think their policies are steps forward.
But you’re not seriously thinking that the „old“ Thaksin order can or should be establihshed again.
No old order can be established again, there is no way that the clock can be turned back, something else has to be developed I hope…
You hope.
I hope.
You’re not sure.
I personally think there will be bloodshed, the question is only the scale and how long it will take. It won’t just be about a change of government, it’s about a system change. Look at the scenarios. If the reds would win through violence with an overthrow of the government, their opponents will still be there. And it would mean further endless confrontation. Same if the yellow side of the conflict wins.
So how does a realiztic solution look like.
I don’t know. At the moment I don’t see any. If we look at how such a compromise could look like, neither side is ready for negotiations. You have all the colors, the military, the different parties… it’s a very difficult situation, obviously it goes way beyond the government. In the end we need a new social contract in Thailand, through negotiations and compromise.
And Prime Minister Abhisit’s approach to play for time?
Difficult to say. My work is about the grassroot levels, I don’t do and don’t know much about the elite conflict, because I get very little provable factors what is really going on on that level. I understand the grassroot level, but not enough about the elite level.
So you’re saying, countering Abhisit’s claims, the potential for conflict hasn’t diminished at all.
No. But he can say a lot. In Thailand there are actually two systems of power distribution at work, the formal power distribution, in which he is the main representative of the nation. But overlaying this, there is the informal power distribution along patronage networks, and within this he is just a face without much influence.
And the place got even more incomprehensible since you arrived in the 90s?
In many ways yes, in many not. The last few years were a steep learning curve for me. So the formal versus the informal power distribution was there, but the social conflict was not fought out in the open as it is now. And I’m not the same man anymore when I arrived.
How did you change?
I got older, I learned a lot. Well, I’m an emotional person, nothing leaves me untouched. And life has become quite dangerous for me — but there is also hope, more hope than when I arrived. Furthermore, the common population is getting very interested in politics, how their country is governed. That is new and encouraging. A lot of Westerners and Western journalists just look at the royal family, the succession, the health of the king. I don’t really look at this at all. We don’t know really know anything about the palace. It’s a fallacy to think in terms of all this socio-political conflict is somehow connected to what is going on or may go on in the palace. This whole discussion I don’t like. We get snippets here and snippets there, lots of rumors, but it’s not enough to base our theories on. But there is so much going on in the communities, we can learn so much from what happens there. I believe that the driving force of this conflict, of this ongoing conflict is the mass participation.
That rather sounds like a solution… But what about the silent majority?
Who’s the silent majority? Everywhere I go people talk about the silent majority? Where are those silent people? But I see people taking positions. I do not see the silent majority. I see people who are sometimes reluctant to express their view in front of strangers, but I don’t see these people being quiet. Look at my neighborhood. The neighborhood I am living is a mostly lower middle class, working class neighborhood. The majority of the people, obviously working class, are pro-red. You have a couple of moo baans, there you have more yellow supporters. And in the market, the red supporters go to the red dealers, the yellow supporters to the yellow dealers.
How do they know.
They know, they just know. During the red protests, red shops were closed because people were at the protests. Same with the yellows.
True, it is quite obvious that Thai people today are much more vocal than ten years ago. And more fearless?
Oh yes, and that is a positive thing in Thailand. Thailand one day wants to become a developed country, but to have a developed country you need a population taking interest in how their country is governed.
Still, many of them seem resigned to the fact that there is no way out. Life ten years ago seemed more peaceful.
Was it more peaceful? The stories my wife tells me about her rural childhood, that’s a pretty horrible life.
So you’re saying life is not worse today with all these new, more open conflicts.
These whole conflicts are not new, they are the locigal conclusion of Thailand’s development over the past decades. It’s a natural conflict. Sure, it has horrific aspects, such as the violence, the uncertainty. But the previously unpoliticized sectors of society are getting politicized, and I think that is positive. Whatever violence might happen, this trend of politicization might be the foundation for one day having a society of equal opportunities for each citizen. This will be a problem for a lot of foreigners coming here. Out of their own delusions they find Thailand to be their own little paradise. Maybe Thailand will not be a very nice place anymore, but a more fair and more just society. The demands foreigners have are pretty irrelevant.
Such as?
The place anyone can come to and find a wife at the age of his granddaughter. A place where you can still lead a little bit of a colonial life. For good or bad, the last years have shown that we are treated more and more as equals. The last years have actually made it much easier to form friendships in Thailand. And also enemies.
Many foreigners feel still treated as third class citizens, just to mention the visa and residency rules.
I don’t think we are. The problems Thais have in their own society are so much worse than the problems foreigners „face“ in Thailand. I have never really seen the Land of Smiles here. It’s a very rough and raw society, very forbidding. It’s very difficult to be a Thai in Thailand. Compared to the average Thai we have a very nice life here I think. A lot of the real problems in society don’t really affect us much. Me as a foreign photographer I can do a lot of things that would be too dangerous for a Thai photographer. For example before and during the drug war I was able to hang out with drug dealers and junkies in the worst of neigborhoods. Thai photographers could only walk in with quite a security presence.
Back then during the drug war with hundreds of people killed you were in no danger. But today in these times of colored politics you’re afraid?
Depends on the point in time. I never had the high profile I have now. All the stories I write on New Mandala are translated into Thai and appear on Prachatai. Prachatai is under a lot of pressure, they’re very courageous people and believe in what they’re doing… But the fear that something could happen is mostly worse than fear itself. I try to base my work on reality, not paranoia. Fortunately I have Thai friends who advise me on dangers I might be facing or not, how I should proceed.
The Nation interview or book review was a major recognition of you and your work.
Somehow I become a public figure, that wasn’t really intended.
Does that change anything? How is a life of fame and fortune.
(Laughs) No fortune, I am afraid. I am in a very difficult financial situation. But at least I am still happy and can work. Regarding the article in The Nation, author Pravit is always the odd one out at The Nation. I know him for quite a while. The Nation has people of both ends and all the sides. There’s an overwhelming yellow, pro-government government reporting. Prawit was always more critical, but also not a Thaksinite. He was always very critical about Thaksin as well. Now, well, he thought I’m newsworthy.
It’s more difficult for the yellows to threaten you now. I mean they always said you’re a Thaksin stooge.
Well, I have had good talks even with some of the yellows… This year the yellows are a lot more relaxed with a lot less pressure, so I can talk with them quite well. There were situations that were more problematic. I talk with anybody who wants to talk to me. At the Oct. 7 rally last year when they commemorated the dead and injured of the year before an elderly man approached me and asked who I am. He introduced himself as the owner of a yellow website that attacked me quite a lot. So he asked if I am angry. I said no and we talked, we disagreed, but it doesn’t mean we had an argument. We had a nice chat, he even wrote an article on his website that now he is convinced that I am not bribed by Thaksin, haha. I personally also disagree with several of the red shirts’ ideas. I see my role as a documentarian of this massive social change in Thailand, from the street level. If people like me or not, I go to both sides, I talk to both sides.
One thing Nick, if I may, most other photogaphers have these big and bulky bags full of equipment. Not you. You work with a single small camera.
I would like to have those big bags full of equipment as well, but can’t afford it, haha. Seriously, I like to work with light equipment, not telephoto lenses. 90 percent of my photos are shot with a wide angle lens. Not too wide, just normal wide angle. I like to be close. Still, in a year I have used up two bodies. Gone, destroyed. Two Canon EOS 450D. One died after the early morning attack in the Songkran riots. I was lucky to get a replacement just before the lunch attack started. Then during a small rally at Sanam Luang a massive rainstorm finished up my next body. Now I’m on my third digital camera in a year, the 500D, the picture quality is acceptable enough. I would love a better built professional camera though.
Toys talk. Your dream camera?
One of my favorite cameras these days is a medium format folder camera, a Balda Super Baldax, lovely camera, beautiful photos, weird, strange sometimes. But it depends on the subjects, for protests a digital camera is the perfect camera.
You as a German should be with a Leica, they should sponsor you.
A Leica is a great mechanical toy, but not a great professional camera. I wouldn’t overestimate the equipment one is using anyway. Photography is about heart and mind. Most of my Patpong photos, the best of them, are shot with a snapshot camera. Digital camera for my documentary style is the best, as it’s fast. But just recently I photographed another murder scene, with a film camera, a Contax T3. Still, those are just tools. My work counts. Longterm projects. For me they are the most fascinating. They go beyond what normal journalism is giving you. It is personally incredibly rewarding to really go into a subject, like with this political conflict I’ve been obsessed with it all along. In the beginning people spoke of hired stooges — but I saw a different constellation of Thai society on the horizon. That’s really fascinating. I’m still quite obsessed with what is going on.
So what will happen over the near future?
Difficult to say, it’s been going on for a very long time and every side is beginning to lose patience. I think this year will be quite turbulent. Anything can happen. All sides have used violence, could use it again. There could be an agent provocateur, such as the blue shirts. They turned around Songkran, they initiated the violence. After that the red shirts couldn’t control their people anymore. Today, Abhisit’s public statements about negotiations are quite sarcastic and sound unwilling. As in every conflict, it’s a question of timing as well. The time for a solution is not yet near. The biggest mistake was the coup 2006. We still suffer from that.
You’re missing the action.
I can very much live without it. Action means people getting injured. Yes, there’s the adrenalin, but it means pain for many people. I am 41 years old, have a wife and a son. I don’t want to get injured myself. I don’t need action to make good photos. The so called action means people get hurt, injured or killed. This is not nice. For example the photo I took in front of parliament on Oct. 7, 2008, with the leg of a protester cut off, it was shocking. I just didn’t expect this to happen, nobody did. I just saw him sitting there. My hands were shaking so badly. I needed much Photoshop to make the shot sharp again. It was absolutely horrible. It’s a strong photo, but it’s a horrible situation.
You have seen so much pain and blood and death, and yet you can’t just see it as part of your job?
For me it’s still shocking. Every time. Even a murder scene I shot two weeks ago. A 14-year-old boy was stabbed to death in a gang fight situation. The father and mother were completely distraught. For me I was just thinking, when I started taking photos of these murders and underworld violence, this boy laying there on the pavement was the same age as my boy now. Nobody wants this pain. I don’t think that I’m hardened. I feel enormous compassion. There are moments I am in tears, choking. Like the PAD protester with his leg, this is horrible. This is not a nice thing to see. Not a nice thing to photograph. Like in the times when I was out with the Por Tek Tung. Worst are the very bad car accidents with people surviving and indescribable injuries… I have no nightmares, but it’s not always easy. Also after the Songkran riots, that was a very emotional time for everyone. That’s part of the documentary photographer, to catch this emotionality… I’m not a robot just entering and shooting around. If it wouldn’t touch me emotionally one day, I better change the job. Add to this the ethical challenge of this job. Every photographer once in a while oversteps ethical boundaries. Everyone has to find for himself a solution of how to remain at peace with oneself and to stay within ethical boundaries.
You find peace?
My big worry is that as with previous conflicts or threats against the security of the state that Thailand faced over the past decades, after a certain period of inactivity and confusion patience runs out and there’s a violent crushing of the resistance. There are indicators that leaders here don’t care anymore what the outside world thinks, such as their allies, the U.S. They’ll do what they want to do, no matter what. New investment to Thailand will stop in this case. Investment already here will stay and somehow Thailand will remain America’s most important ally in the region. There are dangerous days ahead.
Thank you for your time Nick.
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